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DarthDooku |
Obama vs. McCain |
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So, it's the election of ours times.... who do you support? And who do you think is going to win?
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MasterQuiGon |
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Been a long time coming. We had a guest lecture from an American (David Perlmutter should you know the name) journalist/writer/scientist who said he was
speaking for the majority of his countrymen when he said "we are all tired of the elections and want to get it over with".
Personally I hope Obama wins it, even though I'm not confident in his abilities at all (I'm just less confident in yet another Republican president). |
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GK General Kenobi |
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Well, if raising taxes during a recession sounds like as good an idea to you as it does to me to punish those fat cat bastards who own stocks and have
retirement plans and own businesses and employ people, Obama's our man!
Hopefully, and that's the key word, isn't it? Or at least a form of it... ahhhhh hope... anyway... Hopefully, if all goes to plan, we can eliminate all richies, as I like to call them, spread their wealth, and forever emboss mediocrity on our society. If we play our cards right we can eliminate private employment and nationalize everything! We can raise taxes so high that the burden will crush small business, forcing them out of the game. While we're shoveling out the cash for the banking/credit industries, followed closely by airlines and the auto industry, we may as well buy up everything else and prevent people from unfairly enriching themselves on hard work and determination... thankfully we're already inherently teaching future generations the stupidity of hard work and rewards for results as we bail out some fat cats. That will have the whole society nicely ready for that next big leap. Thank God for Obama. Hell, I may as well say what we're all feeling: Thank Obama for Obama. Change is coming. Change we can believe in...... Of that, I have no doubt. |
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nathanieletc |
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Well, if raising taxes during a recession sounds like as good an idea to you as it does to me to punish those fat cat bastards who own stocks and have retirement plans and own businesses and employ people, Obama's our man! That (I assume sarcastic) comment is pretty much exactly why my parents are encouraging me to vote for McCain. Taking away from those who genuinely followed the American Dream and made it in the world to help deadbeats who haven't tried or are just slacking along. (Admittedly, there are also those who are trying their hardest but stuck in low-end jobs, too, but that's the general message they're trying to get across to me.) If anyone, anywhere, no matter what their income, ends up with taxes of a grand total over 50% (which is likely to happen for certain people under Obama), that is just plain wrong. That said, there are some serious Obama supporters out there, and if any of you are, I would love to hear your response to this downside of Obama's tax plan, which is the main reason I'm hesitant to vote for the guy. A lot of his social issues I agree on, but this is a huge hinder on my decision either way. A lot of people are encouraging early voting. The only reason I haven't voted early is that I just can't seem to decide!
Last Edited By: nathanieletc
10/27/2008 4:50 PM.
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ArbiWan |
*applause* | ||
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That was awesome. Truly.
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GK General Kenobi |
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Sarcasm, why sarcasm? Obama is the change we've been waiting for! Or at least the Mayans were when they decided to end their calendar in 2012....
See, the beauty is not only bringing the system into fairer balance by punishing those that earn more, but it's also great for everyone to put more burdens on the people that actually pay taxes. Why would anyone care about the 20% of people paying 80% of taxes? Let's gouge them for more, I say... particularly when the economy is down. How are we supposed to pay for all the things the Democratic House, Democratic Senate, and Democratic Messiah are going to want to do? The fat cats can just go on a diet. The Federal Government needs that money more than they do, anyway... the Federal Government knows who needs it and how best to inject that capital back in the economy... they are the economic experts, you know... And as Obama has rightly said, that money isn't best served in the pockets of these business owners that might have a couple construction crews in the field, trying to expand... they don't need more workers. Firstly, and don't get me started on this, we should be finding ways to import cheaper Indian and Chinese laborers to compete with Mexicans to lower the wages even further... That way we could then take more money from the fat cats to give to them in a government check at the end of the year. But the point is, those business owners don't need that money to expand or stay afloat using their own money in a credit crisis where lending is frozen... We know they don't need it. They need to spread the wealth. Why are you questioning this? We've been given the answer. Don't question the word. Don't believe that whole right wing propaganda machine about growing your way out of a recession... common sense and Obama himself will tell you that the only way out is to tax your way out of a recession... right? Two birds with one stone. Not only do we get to punish those greedy bastards trying to make better lives for their precious Jimmy & Janeys, but we get to restore the economy by spurring new investment and exciting new ventures because... because... hmmmm... I seem to have lost my sheet on that talking point.... I'll have to get back to you on how taxing the 20% that pays the 80% in a time of recession spurs growth... but I'm sure it's one of those Old Testament/New Testament seeming contradictions that aren't really contradictions... must... have....... faith.........
Last Edited By: GK General Kenobi
10/27/2008 7:25 PM.
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nathanieletc |
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I'd still like to hear an Obama supporter's response to GK's comments... anybody? Usually places on the internets are full of Obama people...
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MasterQuiGon |
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Not a fan, really...
But it would indeed be interesting to hear the other side on this. |
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GK General Kenobi |
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LMAO COWD is the one place on Earth without people willing to go on and on about Obama? Too funny.
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ArbiWan |
*conservative rant ahead* | ||
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Okay, I've got to say something, because I am in a really bad mood today. I am so sick of people saying, "It's our right to free health
care," and, "It's about time we got health care." What I want to ask all of those people is why? Why is that your right? Why do you think
you deserve to have someone else pay your bills for you? I've been there too, with the high bills. I've looked at my medical bills and wondered how I
was going to pay them. I had to shell out money that could have been going to buy milk for my family or put gas in the car. I've spent the last of my life
savings to have a baby, then found out I needed to pay for his immunizations too. Those went on a credit card. Wasn't the insurance company supposed to pay
for those? That's what I thought, but they didn't.
Yet, never did it enter my mind that it was someone elses job to pay for all of that. Well, except for the insurance company. It was their job. Which is why I think if you want health care reform, you need to target change within the insurance industry and the medical industry. Universal health care will only perpetuate what's already wrong with the system. Obama's plan doesn't target the problem. Obama's plan covers it up by taking more money from someone else. Which will result in even more money being needed, which will have to come from those same people, because, who else is going to pay for it? And why do we take money from those people? Because they have it, and because we can. Redistribution of wealth. Please can someone tell me how that is not communism? Karl Marx must be overjoyed right now to see his predictions finally coming true. And the American people are willingly let it happen. And my favorite part? The people who will be running this great health care system are the same people who spend 1.26 cents to make a penny and 7.7 cents to make a nickel. Hm. Remember why communism didn't actually work? I heard someone say yesterday, maybe we can find a mix of socialism and capitalism to make things work. What do you think our country already is, if not a mix of socialism and capitalism? Why do you think nearly half of Americans don't even pay taxes (while more than half of taxes come from 5% of Americans)? I guess it's because we have so many people below the poverty line. Those poor people, with their big houses and cars and cable tv. But we need those things! (Especially the cable tv, because if I don't TiVo "Dancing With The Stars" every week, my peeps are are going to think I'm not cool.) It would make people in some countries sick if they saw what we consider poverty here. Except for the more industrious of them. Instead of being sickened by it, they'll just find a way to enter our borders, go into some unsuspecting state, pay $35 at the consulate for a drivers lisence, use the drivers lisence to get a social security card, then live off the system themselves without paying taxes. No wonder they call it the land of opportunity. What a deal! This recession should be a wake up call. Wake up, America! Start doing things for yourself. Star spending wisely and saving for a rainy day instead of living on credit or expecting someone else to take care of you. If you want change, start by looking at what you can change yourself. And please start researching and thinking about things for yourself, instead of just believing whatever you hear on tv or read in an e-mail. Especially don't believe some guy just because the things he says sound nice and it's all for the good of our country in these difficult times. Ask Germany where that can get you. |
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nathanieletc |
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Would you all mind if I mention this thread on Twitter and invite any Obama supporter to stop by? I really want to hear what people have to say to this.
Currently, I'm completely conflicted on this whole issue.
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GK General Kenobi |
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When have you ever been discouraged from bringing people here?
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nathanieletc |
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Fair enough. It's been tweeted.
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GK General Kenobi |
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As long as they keep it civil and within the normal parameters of COWD conduct, it's all good.
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ArbiWan |
*crickets chirp* | ||
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Sorry, I can't stop. Ran across this interesting bit this morning by
[now former] Democratic speech writer.
Last Edited By: ArbiWan
10/31/2008 12:04 PM.
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GK General Kenobi |
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That said, Sarah Palin isn't qualified to be President of the United States... at least nothing suggests so from what I've seen.
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ArbiWan |
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I can't disagree with you there.
The mob mentality I find everywhere I look is getting depressing. I think Obama as president doesn't scare me as much as why he is going to be president. |
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GK General Kenobi |
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Then again, I'm not one of the people that think the Bill Ayers connection is silly. He actively cavorted and moved his political career forward by such
connection with a domestic terrorist. Period.
Obama wants to come back and say that he was 8 when Ayers was bombing... True... but in an incredibly irony, it was the September 11, 2001 issue of Newsweek wherein he said he was disappointed that he didn't bomb more... Was Obama 8 in 2001? He was friends with this guy then. Obama's next defense against Ayers is that he's in education now, that he was a terrorist years ago, but not now. Well....... last I checked, Osama Bin Laden hasn't been a terrorist for 7 years... when does he cease to be a terrorist and begin to be someone to take to lunch and advance your career through? If someone can tell me the time limit for being a terrorist, that'd be great. I do find it amusing that not one of these liberals has taken the time to defend their candidate........ what, in a non-pro-Obama atmosphere there's silence? Can't defend your candidate? There are other people at this board that read this board that are going to vote for Obama... we know that... why aren't any of you speaking up? Are you incapable of defending your candidate and your vote, or is your candidate and vote indefensible because you've been hoodwinked? I can defend my vote... doesn't seem anyone here can for Obama. |
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DarthDooku |
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I support Obama. To be honest, I'm still not well versed in the tax plans, so details on that I really can't argue for or against with anyone.... I do
think that there shouldn't be tax cuts for those making the highest salaries though. If you're making over $250,000 or whatever, you can afford to pay
more taxes. I know, you worked hard to get the money you're making, but let's face it.... even after taxes, you still have a lot of money. Help out the
people who don't make as much. Sure, maybe they made mistakes early in their life, maybe this and that happened and they can't have a high earning job.
Does that mean they don't deserve a break?
As far as people cheating the system, I think that's wrong, but who wouldn't? But even if some people, whether they be citiziens or illegal immigrants, are able to cheat and live off the system, that shouldn't stop us from helping those people here who do need our help. Like with healthcare.... I believe health care should be a right 0for all citizens in this country. I'm working in clinics and whatnot now, and recently, I saw a mother whose husband just died, and she has 7 kids (2 with diabetes) and works three days a week at target just to afford health care for them. Unfortunately, she makes $300 more than the cutoff for food stamps, so getting food for her kids is tough. We should help people like this. With politics, people are always going to be loyal to party lines. There are those few that can look beyond that and choose the right candidate regardless of their affiliation.... I have a feeling that's not anyone here right now, myself included. I remember four years ago, where we were arguing about Bush, and Bush won, and that didn't seem to help us very much. Now, we have a man who voted 90% of the time with Bush, who chose poorly for VP, and is almost nearing the life expectancy for males. I'm not saying that to make fun of McCain, but honestly, he is reaching up there in age.... if something were to happen to him, I do not feel comfortable having President Palin in charge. People always talk about Obama as being inexperienced, but at least he's intelligent, knows the issues, and so on. Palin? Not so much.... although she's mastered the art of dodging questions, judging from the VP debate. At least if something were to happen to Obama, Joe Biden is a smart man, and can run this country. And just because you're friends with a former terrorist, that doesn't mean you are a terrorist, does it? Say I run for president 20 years from now.... what if one of my friends now later turns out to be someone most of us wouldn't associate with? Just because I was friends with him in the past, that makes me one with him? I agree, to some degree we have to judge a person by his friends, but it's also possible for someone to be honest and trustworthy, even if one or two of his friends aren't. Regarding health care, the insurance industry is messed up as it is. Patients are annoyed, doctors are annoyed, it's a mess all around. And that means that the people who earn the best grades in medical school, who you'd think our are smartest doctors, go into the high money fields like radiology, dermatology, etc. Are those important? Yes they are, but what about our internists and pediatricians. Pediatricians make so little here, but in England, it's the most competitive field. Basically, if we actually had universal health care, it would equalize the playing field. Maybe if you want that nose job or tummy tuck you have to pay extra, but at least anyone who needs immediate surgery for an aneurism or something can get it. People won't stay home with a stomach ache, hoping it'll go away, only to find out they have appendicitis a little too late. I know Republicans feel health care is a privilege, but I honestly believe that it's a right, and we should try to have universal health care as much as possible. I agree with most of Obama's stances on the issues. But he's not perfect, not a "messiah" as GK referred, and anyone who thinks so is deluding himself. Look, he voted not to provide care to babies who were a result of failed abortions. That disturbs me. Is he a perfect candidate? No. But I don't see McCain as being good for this country right now. We've just had 8 years of failed Republican rule, and McCain honestly doesn't seem to be much of a change for me. Attribute my opinion to whatever you like, but that's what I think, and that's why I voted for Obama. ![]() |
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DarthDooku |
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And one more thing.... if we look at McCain's judgement, look no farther than him choosing Palin. If that's not bad judgement, I don't know what
is.
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ArbiWan |
I'll go first | ||
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There are just one or two things I want to address, and I'll leave the rest to GK.
To GK: Yes, his growing list of associations is disturbing, and Ayers is probably the most so. Have you heard the most recent addition to the pile? His illegal alien aunt came here four years ago to see him get sworn in as a senator, and stayed after a judge told her to she couldn't. And she's been living in public housing, while donating $5 a month to Obama's campaign ever since. But he didn't know. And he didn't help her get her tourist visa. He barely knows her, after all. Sounds like your aunt is a lot more fond of you than you are of her.
Last Edited By: ArbiWan
11/01/2008 6:51 PM.
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